Episode No. 023
Covetousness, jealousy, resentment, bitterness, resentfulness, spite, desire, and the green-eyed monster. Envy comes in a lot of forms. When envy enters the picture love and relationship go right out the door. We continue our discussion about how to love people well.
Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just two normal dudes trying to live this Jesus life. My name is
Andrew: Josh and my name’s Andrew. And we are this Jesus life podcast. Josh, how you doing man?
Josh: Andrew. Oh, I see what you tried to do that my name has been changed to boobies inside of our script. I’m no longer Joshua boobies.
It’s just boobies now. Um, but it’s not everywhere. Just really. And when we say script, let’s be honest. It’s just the intro. We should know this by now. But we don’t. Um, we still not a week. Uh, I’m offended. You just changed the script, by the way, as I’m looking at this, I feel like my title for you was fantastic on the podcast.
Andrew: I’m Andrew that a S S Munter come on now. No. That’s a model that’s too of inappropriate stuff. So people, we
Josh: have a,
Andrew: we have a shared Google document that we like put in our intro and stuff into, and a wild Josh was praying. I’m just going to confess it to you all. While Josh was praying, I changed his name from Josh to just straight up boobies.
I’m still that he wouldn’t see it until that moment. Uh, so that worked pretty well.
Josh: That’s true. And then I left the screen. Uh, to make sure that I had the episode, right. Oh man. And came back and all of a sudden it said, boobies, well, speaking of which, Oh, the hi-jinks here’s the funniest thing is we should know all these things.
We don’t. We look at them every week and it’s the same thing every single week. So this is probably why we constantly change it. Cause it just entertains us. Cause it never changes. Um, even though some people don’t like our intro by some people, I mean one person that we have already publicly shamed. Uh, but for everybody else, I think it’s catchy Josh, but Andrew.
To get us, get our conversation going before we dive into the big topic. Right. Uh, what would you do with a hundred million dollars?
Andrew: That’s a great question. I would pay a ton of it in taxes, um, and be upset about it, but not that upset. Um, I would immediately pay off my house and just have new mortgage payment except taxes or whatever.
So that’d be awesome. I don’t know, dude, I feel like I would want to find some cool things to give a decent portions to, um, But I also would want to do some really fun stuff. Like it’d be, if I had just a hundred million dollars in the bank account tomorrow, feel like I would be like, okay, I’m going to, I don’t know if I’d quit my job or not like, am I quit my job and start some business?
Or I might just keep doing my job, but I feel like it’d be a blast to be like, all right, 20 best friends, we’re all going. To this place, you know, in a month and I’m paying for everything, let’s make it happen. You know, like just do a really awesome for indication.
Josh: This sounds awesome. I think you should definitely win or should get a hundred million dollars then
Andrew: I’ll take you on vacation.
What would you do well? Like what are the first things you do,
Josh: man? Well, if we’re going on vacation, I’d get a Yaki somewhere. I wouldn’t buy it
Andrew: cause that’s just rent it for the week
Josh: or whatever, and a hundred million, but I rent it for the week just for, uh, my closest friends, uh, and probably some family and not all the family, not all the friends.
Um, it’d be a very selective group of people.
Andrew: Well, when you’re on a boat, there’s there’s boat dynamics. You gotta worry about, you know, it’s like, who’s. He’s going to drink too much and try to take over like the captain role, you know, like can invite that guy
Josh: or girl, either one, it would always be cool.
This isn’t really money related anymore, but like you can rent houseboats on, um, Lake Tahoe. I think it’s Tahoe. I think there’s probably a lot of lakes, but it’s yeah, I think it’s big on tile. Um, cool. To have a bunch of houseboats and just a bunch of friends. Uh, that’d be a good time, but if I had a hundred million dollar, well, I’ve always wanted to build like, like a rec center with hockey rinks and like baseball fields in gyms and indoor water park.
Yeah. I think that’d be pretty sweet for the community. No, not charge an arm and a leg. Like, you know, some of your. LA Fitnesses and those kinds of things, but, um, that’d be, that’d be probably my first thing. And then, yeah, you’d probably quit your job. Um, at least I would, I think I probably, or maybe I just, by my job by your job, it could be the other option.
Just buy it. I think that’s what I think is what is sold for just under that. Um, I could buy it Saturday. Um,
Andrew: No. Sure. No, man. I don’t know,
Josh: but yeah, I don’t know if I go, I don’t,
Andrew: I just,
Josh: I have some dreams that I have that I would live out. Yeah.
Andrew: We’re going to talk envy in a little bit, but it’s weird. I like, I just, there’s not a lot of stuff.
The stuff that I envy, like I might envy like a more land. Like it’d be cool to live on a place with like 20 acres that I privately owned,
Josh: you know, in your own private. Your own private jet and helicopter. When in reality, like a hundred million dollars, though, it is a lot of money. It’s not a lot of
I’m here thinking about Jetsons. Like you’re not right.
Josh: Yeah. You’re not filthy rich. You’re like, you’re pretty good. You’ll give a fair amount of money to your children when you die and probably even to your grandchildren, but you’re not like private secrets, maybe rent, charter, private jets. But, uh, yeah, but I just,
Andrew: I I’m so cheap in my mind that I feel like if I had a hundred million dollars, that’d be like, I’m good in this house.
And like, when the neighbors sell, maybe I’d buy their house too, just to have all their land and stuff, you know, just to add it. Yeah. But like, I just. I don’t know, dude, I never want a private jet or like I’m maybe go on a ride in a helicopter, but I don’t want a helicopter, you know, I don’t know, but it just,
Josh: yeah, it’s the upkeep that seems really expensive.
My money would die really fast. I get an, a phenomenal business manager, uh, and get him to start investing my money with a lot of oversight. Let’s be honest. Sometimes business managers are not good people.
Andrew: Good people. Would you rather be attacked by Bigfoot or a shark? And let me tell you, you live from both the tax, but you are traumatized and you have some minor physical longterm damage.
Josh: Minor physical longterm damage, my bad. Uh, I would rather be attacked my big foot hands down. Um, I’m already terrified of sharks. Uh, not my thing. I’m terrified of sharks and swimming pools and a shadow goes by, and let’s be honest. Most sharks can’t live inside of a swimming pool one, cause it’s not salt water to cause or to bait.
Uh, yeah. So shark attack, like I won’t even. If we’re in the middle of the ocean and they’re like, Hey, you want to jump in and swim? I do
Andrew: know architects free. Cause it’s too
Josh: dark and shirts. Yeah. No thank you. But yeah, big foot. Yeah, he could beat me up. I’m picturing, like grabbed me by the ankle, just slammed me back and forth a handful of times.
Um, but at the same time you can say you saw a big foot, so there’s a win win there. Uh, and I might not ever go in the forest again. No, at least not the deep forest, just stay on the edge, but he could also attack me cause he’s big foot. I could be in the middle of a city and he attacked me. Who knows? I’m not really sure.
Andrew: I was just trying to think, wants to attack.
Josh: Cause like, if he’s really going to be sneaky, it wouldn’t be in the woods. It’d be in the city, newly finished. He’s walking out
Andrew: to be in your newly finished hockey rink thing. He would not expect to happen at all. Just a big foot takes off like a janitor hat and turns around and you’re like, Oh crap.
And he just beats the crap out of you for like an hour.
Josh: Yeah. Cause of the janitor. Cause the janitor hat is the thing that has kept him in disguise up to this point.
Andrew: It’s just been pushing him off around, like trying to put them.
Josh: There’s a game. There’s a game I played for my, while my brother plays it called Sasquatch.
I think it’s called Sasquatch. It’s on the Apple arcade. Um, and you you’re a Sasquatch essentially living in the woods and then you like gain. All these different whatevers. And eventually you’re like a news reporter taking pictures and working for a business. Uh, and your disguise is like a suit and then they don’t know you’re a Sasquatch.
They just really hate it. Yeah. But that’s what I’m
Andrew: picturing. That’s exactly what I meant. That’s exactly what it meant.
Josh: Yeah. Yeah. That’s funny, Andrew, on this note of things that aren’t real, uh, do you believe in ghosts or aliens?
Andrew: Uh, I’m way more prone to believe in aliens. Like I, uh, I don’t think, and I wouldn’t like die on this Hill, but I just, like, I don’t think there’s anything in the Bible that is explicitly like you are the only life form God created.
And he created this huge galaxy, all these planets, all this other stuff. So in my mind, I’m like, of course he made some other aliens people. Maybe not people, I don’t know. Yeah, of course he made some other cool stuff.
Josh: You think they have a different, like, Um, timeline or theology than we do, or do you think it’s identical?
I don’t know. Two. I
Andrew: feel like he might have seed. This is where it gets weird. I have no idea, but I, I just feel like with the enormity of space and time and everything that he probably made some other civilizations or some other. People for lack of better word, some other life forms, you know, I don’t think they’re like properly the flying saucer aliens that we see did, but I don’t know.
I don’t know. Uh, but ghosts, I’m not sure
Josh: if it came out, say we get to heaven and they never make it here before then and we get to have it and God’s like, Oh yeah, there’s these other 17 civilizations.
Andrew: And they all never sent shock. You guys did.
Josh: Okay. Yeah, you guys were the sack. Okay. I wouldn’t be shocked, but at the same time, hard to believe, and I definitely don’t believe they’re here if they are, because let’s be honest, like the next closest galaxy that could support life it’s so far away.
And the amount of time, it probably took them to travel here. Why wouldn’t they announce it. They we’re so superior to you that we are here. And like, like it took them a while to get here. Like, why wouldn’t they I’d tell the
Andrew: whole world it’s either that they didn’t do that. Or they’re just really, really about anal li probing farmers.
Josh: So just popped up. It was weird that, that check him out
Andrew: what they
Josh: say. It’s like, you’re lying. And you learn so much about these individuals. If you stick a probe in their bottle, I’m like, Hmm. I just don’t know how much you’re gonna learn today,
Andrew: but like ghosts there’s like we stuff in the Bible, like, uh, Oh gosh, whose spirit is it that like the one
Andrew: Yeah. Like that, that sorceress lady like calls up the spirit of Samuel and maybe also the spirit of Moses or Aaron or something like that. It’s a weird story. But so I don’t know. I don’t know, know what to think about ghosts because it’s like, of course there’s the spiritual realm. Angels and demons, God, and the devil there’s a lot going on, but I don’t know.
Josh: And Samuel wasn’t like, wasn’t pleased about it. Like why it’s like solid. Why are you bringing back here? Um, it’s a little terrifying that people have the ability to do that. Um, So like now you get into like the sorcery thing and like witchcraft and it becomes a lot more terrifying because you’re actually doing something it’s not just you’re playing in your basement.
Um, yeah, so I don’t, I don’t think in general spirits are around. Um, yeah. But at the same time, the Samuel story says it’s possible. So who knows how all that plays out? Maybe we just understand that story and correctly, and it’s not played out exactly the way we’re interpreting it, but yeah, I wouldn’t be, I would be shocked or surprised.
All right, Andrew, last question for you. Yes. If we pulled open your iPhone and we went to whatever the application is called, that tracks, how much time you spend on things, what app would be most?
Andrew: Okay. This is conjuncture, cause I have not looked at my time report, but I think the thing that I probably spend the most time on is probably Instagram.
Um, that’s the one that just like sucks my time away. Holy.
Josh: Yeah. The in screen times what’s called. Yep.
Andrew: Yes. I think Instagram is probably it. And.
Josh: Most use don’t that’s just
Andrew: my most used the last week was Google Chrome, but I had to do a lot of research about tile work for my shower. So I was probably like smuggling things. Yeah.
Josh: For me, it’s it’s many motorways. So in the last week I’ve spent an hour and 25 minutes on it. If you don’t play it, you should.
Cause it’s a glass, a great puzzle game in your head and I’m well over. If you do play it, I’m all over like 2,500 and all the different levels. Thank you. Then it’s Chrome then it’s Instagram and then it’s email. There’s no way I spend that much time to keep it doesn’t even make sense. There’s another section on here of pickups.
What’s the app you use most often when you pick up your phone and mine is email, email, and then
Andrew: grab. Yeah, that’s fair. Um,
Josh: I don’t even feel like I spend that much time. Like my work doesn’t even, we don’t email. We use Slack constantly.
Andrew: You just, you just love, but I guess you do love to write me long detailed emails and I’m like, Josh, just call me, dude.
Like send me, you know?
Josh: Oh, I like it. I like it. Cause it’s a recording. I like my journal everyday. So like I can always go back and be like, what did I do on October 1st or email Andrew at that bowel movement. That was pretty impressive. I took a picture and sends it to him.
Andrew: You attach them image to the email.
Josh: sense. Yeah. I feel like that’s important. You can’t talk about something so visual like that. Not no not show and just not a good enough writer to explain it in
Andrew: such a way. Very important thing.
Josh: Alright, uh, we’re talking, we’re talking on love, does not imitate as we continue in this series about relationships and how to do relationships well, and the importance of relationships that has that Jesus has, has, uh, put all throughout scripture.
Um, I would argue that you take scripture and no matter where you end up. Uh, in it that that verse is about relationship. Either relationship with God or relationship with one another and, and vias definitely on there. Um, in terms of, um, the destructive nature of envy, uh, when we choose to live inside of it, um, But, um, yeah.
What’s your first thoughts on Andrew?
Andrew: Well, first thoughts, I know we were kind of talking about the a hundred million dollars thing and it doesn’t sound to me like in VF of stuff is a big issue in your life. I don’t think we have stuff is a big issue in mind. I could be wrong. I don’t know, man, but I just don’t think about being envious of other people’s things that often, um, But with that being said, I think of envy as like something that is a very, can be a very destructive force.
Um, something that can kind of take you from like a place where you’re content with what God has given you. Relationally, um, stuff wise like tangibly, like it can take you from a place of, of being potentially content or satisfied with what God has provided for you and can, can totally shift that. So your focus becomes, Oh, here’s all the things that would be better in my life, you know?
So it kind of takes you away from a heart of gratitude. I think if you’re envious about through things, it shuts down your ability to be grateful. Uh, about things. So,
Josh: yeah, I don’t know. I well, and they also say like, There’s plenty of scientific studies out there that that’s doing research on this. I think it’s relatively new within the last decade research of like gratitude is such a key portion of your happiness.
So if you can’t live inside of grabbing too, it’s one of the major reasons that you can live essentially happier. I didn’t know that.
Andrew: That’s pretty cool. I did that. Yeah.
Josh: There’s a lot of studies that say like, if you just wake up, this is this isn’t religious rule. We see this throughout scripture. Um, But like even the secular world is saying, Hey, spend a few moments every day, writing down three things that you’re grateful for, and you’re going to find yourself in a much healthier and help you happier place.
Andrew: That’s pretty cool, man. I, um, I don’t know. I do think there’s a Bible verse. I might Google this in a minute, um, about a grateful heart, um, or thankful heart turns away. Scorn or something like that. Anyway, I’ll look it up so I can, I can come back to that, but yeah, man, when I think about envy, I think it’s, it’s something that is just to instructive.
I don’t know if like any positive version of envy, like I don’t think there is one. Um, I think in V is just a negative trait, which is why, um, In these Bible verses, we’ve been talking about first Corinthians one through 13, one through eight. Um, love is patient love is kind, we covered those two last week and the week before, go check it out.
Um, but love does not envy, you know, the first two are like, it is patient. It is kind, and then it flips and it says does not envy, you know? So, um, It’s just a negative, uh, for sure. And I think like if we go all the way back to kind of the origin story of the Bible, of how we kind of understand God, the father and, um, Satan, um, and their roles.
I think envy played a huge piece and why Satan looked at it God and said, I could do better. You know, like that, that thing, uh, uh, an angel that God had created, um, Lucifer looked at him and said, um, I could do better if I was in your spot. You know? Um, it was envious. I don’t know all the reasons. I don’t know.
All the details behind that, but it’s like, that was definitely a piece of what, what transpired from loose for being the head angel to being like a total outcast enemy of God. So, um, yeah, and taken a lot of other people with him. So I think it’s just a negative trait.
Josh: Well in like, look at inside of relationship and envious is 100% destructive of relationship.
Like it will destroy it, um, faster than anything else that could destroy a relationship. Um, I think oftentimes w. Especially growing up, you find yourself envious of other people for different reasons, maybe it’s personality traits that they have, or, um, relationships that they have, or even things that they have.
Um, and just the destructive nature that, that causes or the divide that, that creates or dessinee that creates between you and that individual, whether the individual knows or not what you’re, that you’re envious of them. Um, and like you, like, I don’t. I don’t really envy a lot of stuff. Like my neighbor has a range Rover.
Uh, and when he, when he first said it was his car, I was like, Oh dude, that’s one of my dream cars, but I don’t look out my window staring at it like, Oh, I need that car in my driveway. Um, that doesn’t come to mind. I just, I think it’s a nice car. I love my trucks. So I’d have to have both because I would still want a truck.
Um, So like for me, it’s not that side, but relationship, like, there’s been plenty of times that I’ve envied relationship. Um, or I felt like I was losing relationship and it was going somewhere else and I was envy or jealous of that. Um, and that causes. Just even more destruction to that relationship that you’re just trying to hold on to you, or you’re watching from afar, however, it plays itself out.
But so there’s that piece of it too, that it’s just, it’s so destructive in, in what we’re doing. And oftentimes you don’t even realize it. Um, like you don’t realize that the cause of all this angst, this frustration, this destruction around you is, is the envy that’s living inside of you. Um, because you’ve justified your envy in your own head.
Maybe not, not, um, Um, consciously, like, I didn’t realize I’m envious, but I’m going to justify it based on this, but we, our brains are pretty smart things and start to move things around and make it work, work how we want to. But like James said in James chapter three, verse 16, not to be confused with John three 16, this is James three 16 still.
Great verse. Doesn’t think that their salvation though, um, But James says for where you have envy and selfish ambition there, you will find disorder and every evil practice. Um, and I’ve seen so many people’s lives and not just their life, but the lives of them around them. Just be utterly destroyed and.
Um, fall apart because of one person’s envy of, of another, of another situation and maybe there’s envy outside of their situation. Like they have, you know, they have this envy of this person has this kind of influence or this kind of platform. And I don’t, um, and you chasing that and covering up with a bunch of different things.
Maybe you cover it up with, you know, uh, You think God’s in something, so you chase down that something, or you cover it up in other ways and just the destruction of everything around you that that starts to cause, um, and you think you’re, you’re in the right, because you’ve justified it in your own head.
I say all this to say this, like it’s extremely important. You gotta pay attention to what you’re going to be envious. VSF and it’s a hard thing to pinpoint, even for us. We’re like, we’re talking, Hey, like. Any stories about being envious? Well now not really. And then you start to dig in a little bit more and you like, well, I guess, yes.
Yeah. Yes. Things maybe DAPA relationship matters to me. Yeah. That plays a role in this. And there’s other areas that you could be envious of, you know, personality traits. And maybe it’s not even envious of another person. Maybe it’s like, here’s my personality traits. I just wish I had these personality traits.
I’m not really envious. That anyone that has them necessarily. I just want them like anyone specific I should say, but yeah. Um, so there’s that piece of it too, um, that, you know, you, you are who you, God created you to be, to do the things God created you to do. So, um, without those things, you wouldn’t be able to do those things.
So I think it’s going back to what you’re saying, and there’s a level of contentment of being okay with who you are, um, and the identity that you find at Jesus, um, to not let yourself get too far down the road of envy. And I would argue. And this is just off the top of my head. I would argue if envious is rampant in your life, there’s some jesus’ issues that you need to dig into in relationship with Jesus and to figure out why are you going down these roads?
What are you missing or what do you think you’re missing?
Andrew: I think you’re right. I I’m like thinking about envy on me personally, like a personal story. It is kind of hard to pin down. I think of one story from my life that I’ll just give the quick version, but, um, about a year in to dating Jana, who is now my wife, um, we were on summer break and there was this guy who Janet had been really just great friends with for a long time, worked with them.
Um, good friends at home, all of that. Known him for years and years went to high school with them, all this stuff. And, um, basically came out, you know, like early in that summer that we, sophomore year when we had just, um, not even dating for a year, but came out early in that summer that, um, that he liked her a lot.
Like he expressed, Hey, I want to be, I want to be a
Josh: more, more than friends you’ll know.
Andrew: No. Um, but. Sure. I’m finding this out as she’s finding it out. Um, but I’m in a different state and we’re doing different things in the summer and all of this, and it’s a new relationship. And, um, we were pretty serious about each other, even before partying for the summer.
We’d been dating actually for like five months, you know, four months. So anyway, I, I let this kind of festered my heart and mind, and I think it was a place of like, Being really scared about the possibility of losing Jana. She was the first person that I first, anybody I’d ever dated that I, um, told I’d love you.
You know? And I don’t even think I had said, I love you too at this point, but I
Josh: dang, dude, I love you. After four months, you’re already drunk,
Andrew: man. I was serious about it. Um, But it was like to me,
Josh: which would have terrified me in the sense of like, she’s leaving me for this other guy now because she freaked her out and he said, I love you all right.
No, but it was
Andrew: still like, it was freaking me out. And I just, I don’t think I was nearly as honest with my reaction as I should have been right up front, you know? And then I got kind of possessive and I got worried and I couldn’t do anything to control it. And it got to a point where she just basically point blank told me like, Hey, you gotta.
You gotta be able to trust me in this stuff, um, that, that I can be around him with all of my friends that I work with and not have anything go on. And if he can’t trust me, we can’t, we can’t make this thing work. And it was like the stark wake up call of like, I’m actually, this thing happened that was out of my control.
And then I let envy kind of fester in my heart and mind and almost lost this relationship. That was so important to me. Um, Then, and, and to think of what would have happened if I lost, if we broke up and couldn’t date and I mean, my life, if would look very different and I don’t know what that would be like, but like, that’s the one thing of in view where I’m like that relational envy, where I just, it was fear-driven, it was lack of trust driven and probably at the forefront.
It was me not reacting nearly as honestly as I should have, um, about like, Oh, that kind of freaks me out because you know him better. Yeah. And then, you know, me and you’re dating me and I’m far away and all this stuff, you know, could have been way more honest in it, but I don’t think there’s anything positive if that came out of that.
Except for the point where I realized I was the one that almost destroyed our relationship and that. I learned from that, you know, learned a lot from that. So, yeah. I don’t know men in is just a tricky thing where it’s like, my favorite part of
Josh: that story is the poster sites picture of your wedding day that you sent that back and you wrote on it, suck it hashtag winning.
That’s not true. Not true. That is like, yeah. Like you’re, you’re showing them. Who’s no way,
Andrew: man. I’m a blessed man that I am married to Jenna. Um, I don’t deserve it, but anyway, man, that’s, it’s, it’s one of those things. I feel like envy and maybe this is true of all sin, but, uh, envy is kind of like one of those things where it’s like a small, you know, the power a single match has.
It’s not much, not much of a threat in the box, but it can be a big threat when it’s lit in the forest or live in a house or whatever, you know, it can turn into a huge ordeal, a life changing thing pretty quick. So, um, yeah.
Josh: Yeah. Yeah, I think to like, to go along with, with james’ words in chapter three, um, if you’re seeing destruction, especially inside a relationship around you, um, like I would take a step back and see where envy is as that play.
Um, because I would argue to some extent it’s probably at play, um, and it’s worth digging into and figuring out and, and, and acknowledging that this is where you’re at, and this is what you’re ending. Um, But I guess the next question is Andrew, if we recognize envy is playing a role in our lives, like what do we do to overcome it?
Andrew: So funny, I was gonna, I was gonna ask you that, um, as the next thing, but, um,
Josh: I could see in your eyes
Andrew: totally beat me to it. I don’t know. I don’t have a perfect answer. I don’t think, um, but you probably didn’t expect me to have a perfect answer, but if you see envy.
Josh: No. That’s why I asked you if
Andrew: you see envy in your life, what do you do about it?
Um, what’s the next step? I mean, I think one of the first things is take a little time to slow down and understand where it’s coming from. Kind of like what you were saying. If there’s, there’s a bunch of center, a bunch of things falling apart. Your life, try to examine where envy is in that equation. Um, I think, yeah, slow down and just reflect a little bit on it.
Like, wait, what is, what am I in? VSF why what’s the root of that. That’s just a good place to start to understand, and then invite, invite the Holy spirit into that and pray like, Lord, can you help reveal this stuff to me? Because I don’t. I only see this side of the situation and be really specific. Maybe write it down, maybe email it to a friend who you’re close with.
I don’t know. That was a joke from earlier, but, um, write it out, take time to really think through it and, and share that with somebody, share with the Lord in prayer and ask him to reveal more to you about that, but then share with somebody yeah. Who you love and who loves Jesus, you know, Um, in the reverse order who loves Jesus and loves you?
Um, like that’s, that’s what I would say to just try to start understanding it. Um, what do you think, man?
Josh: I think that’s a great start. Like, uh, I think too often when sin enters our lives, as it does often, um, our response to it. Is to fix ourselves. Um, and that, isn’t what Jesus do. Um, like send management is not the goal of Christianity relationship, but Jesus is the goal of Christianity and out of that, pouring into relationship with other, other people.
Um, so kind of following that model of, of exactly what you’re saying, if. Dig into it with Jesus, you know, Hey Jesus, what’s going on? Um, I’ve got it. We’ll be missing something here. What’s happening that I’m not seeing, you know, what sins present that I’m not paying attention to. Um, and just start to have those detailed conversations with him, with God and with his spirit and, um, dig into those things and, and see what what’s revealed.
And, uh, not only what’s revealed, but like what’s your next action. Step out of that. Revelation. Um, if God’s saying, Hey, you’re envious of this specific thing. Um, then my next question to God is, okay, God, I’m envious of this specific thing. I’m acknowledging that I’m recognizing it. Um, which is first step of overcoming.
Anything is recognize that it’s an issue. Um, but then the second question is now, okay, God, now I’m recognizing it. What am I, what do I do with it? Like, what’s next? Like what do I, what’s the hard stuff that I need to do. What’s the stuff I need to dig into personality. Uh HeartWise um, behavior wise that, that starts to shift and change.
Some of these things, um, I think is, is a big, a big piece of it as well. And I would probably assume. Um, that Jesus is going to start pushing into, um, some things with maybe it’s an envious of a person. We’ll just use that as a new cable to make things simple. Um, I, I think he’s going to start pushing into you of, of, uh, being that person’s biggest cheerleader, um, that like you need to, you need to promote them.
You need to uplift them. You need to ask me to continue to bless them in the areas that you’re envious of them about. Um, So there, because we should be looking at it from that perspective, especially in set a relationship of like, I want to be for the good that’s coming out of that area of their life.
Like I want to be for God to continue to do great work in that area so he can continue to have great impact in that area. Like, why would I want him to take that away? That’s that’s crazy talk. Um, but there’s something inside of our own or it’s the gratitude piece too, right? Like there’s something that we do in practice gratitude that starts to shift how we shift our perspective.
Yes. When I start to praise that person around me, that I’m envious of. It’s going to start to shift my perspective of that relationship and about what’s going on. And what’s the most important thing. I think last episode we talked about, like, you’ve got to pull back from life far enough to see life in the big picture and not be so focused on the thing in front of you.
And I think oftentimes when envy is in the picture and we’re so focused on that one thing that we missed. Kingdom perspective from the respective bank. Look what God is doing with that. Like, so I’m a, you know, I come from a pastor’s background. I’ve preached for a long time. Um, preacher envy, man, is it through the roof inside of pastors?
Like through the roof, inside the pastors? I never understood it. I never wanted to be a preacher, so that’s probably why I’m not. And because of other preachers, I just appreciate their skill, um, when they’re good at it. And then when they’re not good at it, I’m sad for them, but, um, uh, but yeah, and like others of just seeing specially like your famous preachers, um, like they start to nitpick everything about their lives, um, this and that.
And you hear what so-and-so did. Did you hear what he did today or she did today and, um, like it just starts to consume your thoughts in all reality, if you really step back from it, like. You’re envious of their ability, what God has given them too, to be able to do these things. So you’re going to nitpick everything about their ministry when we should be saying, man, look at the impact that God is having.
So maybe they’re a great evangelist. So they preach the gospel in such a way that it just grabs a hold of people’s hearts, but there are horrible disciple makers. Um, We’d like to focus on the things that are bad at your look, but look how good they are and then partner with the right person. We have the whole package altogether, right?
Like, yeah. Can we be praying for those things? Can we be praying for the fruit that’s coming out of it? Like, is it horrible that so many people are coming to know Jesus? No, that’s not horrible. That’s crazy. Talk like, be glad of, but like it’s such a big, big thing among pastors of like the nitpicking of other pastors, because in all reality, I think is just 100% empty.
Yeah. Of just tearing them up inside and they’re not willing to admit. Cause it’s, it’s normal for all of us to meet. Oh, and I’m not envious, but anything real around reality. No, we probably are. If we’re taking the time to really dig into it and I would argue a lot of your MV probably falls inside of your insecurities as well.
So like, The insecurity is that, you know, you go back to over and over again. Um, probably have some root in, in some NVR life, um, that you probably need to dig up, but I’d say, I’d say exactly what you said of first step is, is to acknowledge it, to have that conversation with God, get really detailed about it.
Um, Then get into the conversation of God. What do you, what do I do about it now, now that I recognize that this is a problem
Andrew: I’ve been, as you’ve been, I was trying to listen and I was listening to what you were saying right there. Um, and my mind just kind of went off on this tangent a little bit around the question of.
Why is his love not envy? Why does love never envy? And I started thinking of a few kind of examples. One is, have you seen the movie Hamilton? Have you seen that on Disney plus?
Josh: Uh, I tried, I’ll be honest. I didn’t get far.
Andrew: So we watched that Janet loves musicals and theater and actually really enjoyed it, um, too.
And Catherine loved it. Um, cause it’s like songs dancing and all that stuff. Um, One of the, the spoiler alert. Uh, but it’s fine. Um, but one of the guys who is a main character, um, he has this be the one yeah. Major song he has throughout is where the theme is. I just want to be in the room where it happens.
Like, I want to be at the table. I want to be making sure the decisions that Hamilton is making. Uh, but it’s an idea that it could apply to a lot of places. I just want to, it’d be in the room where it happens and then he kind of goes on and you see his envy growing and growing and growing. And in the very end, um, he ends up becoming vice president.
Um, but, uh, he challenges Alexander Hamilton to a dual and shoots and kills him. Um, and he does it intentionally and it’s like this literal thing of like this envy transpired where they could have been best friends. If they work together, they could have been like a bigger force to be reckoned with, but the dudes in just kept spiraling and spiraling and spiraling and, uh, and in the end he literally.
Killed him and that’s, I believe factual to what happened, but, um, but anyway, uh, there’s, there’s that, I’d where it’s like it can creep and creep and creep. And then to the point where you’re not even thinking about all the stuff you’re doing or all the gifts that God gave you, you’re just focused on somebody else and how they’re a better preacher, but Oh, they must have this moral, fairly failure that they’re hiding.
Cause nobody’s that good of a teacher, whatever, you know, you’re. Your envy can start to spiral and spiral, um, to totally distract you.
Josh: That’s a good word. The other
Andrew: thing, man. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead.
Josh: No, and just to tag on that, like
just the amount of people that I know that are so focused on. One small little thing, whether it’s another person or it’s a different sin that they miss out on so much fruit of their ministry, of what God wants to do in them and through them, um, Because they can’t get past this one thing, whether it’s an issue of forgiveness or it’s an issue of, um, envy or it’s a, another variety of different sins that they just get so focused on that one little thing, then they just can’t break through that.
They’re constantly kept from what God is wanting to do and how he wants to work. Like it’s just mind boggling and you miss out on so much life. Um, but I, I Googled this, the Burr Hamilton duel is a yeah. Historical.
Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s like, uh, but it’s yeah, I thought it was historical.
Josh: Let’s be honest, like as vice president kind of crazy, but you know,
Andrew: it’s crazy.
Like I challenge you to do all behind the white house. Like what? It’s crazy. But dude, the other thing I was thinking is like on the super cause when we think about envy, um, we’re usually talking actually about stuff. Um, is that maybe just cause it’s the easier thing to talk about. You know, when you’re envious of the ranger over or envious of that person’s house or that person’s bank account or whatever you’re in VSL.
Um, like I think the love never is envious because when you’re talking about relational things or material things, like, especially with material, things, say you’re super envious of. Um, the range Rover, you know, so you, you start cutting corners at work and doing things that are unethical or whatever, to get the promotion, and then you do it more and more to where you’re getting paid enough.
And you’re like, I’m buying a range Rover today. Guess what? You might buy that brand new. You might buy every special feature you can get of it. Um, but the first test drive, you take it out of on, after buying it. Well, it’s going to rain or you’re going to go through a mud or you’re going to hit a pothole, or you’re going to do something to take it from that perfect material state.
Josh: Andrew, are you, are you trying to destroy my range Rover right now in your illustration? Yeah. You
Andrew: just say it like something’s going to happen to it. Whether it’s the day you drive it off the lot or a year later or whatever, like eventually. It’s going to get scuffed up. There’s going to be birds that poop on it while you drive.
Jack’s gonna throw up in the front seat. If he’s not on a hunger strike, like we talked about,
Josh: if I have raised for Jack would not be in the it’s fair,
Andrew: but, um, I don’t know, dude, you love Jack, but I’m just saying like on the material, like God might allow you to get whatever that thing is that you were envious of.
But at some point it’s going to disappoint you hardcore. And you’re going to be stuck saying, well, I guess I just need a better version of the ranger over, you know, the 20, 28 just came out and that’s way better. Cause it has better shocks and whatever, you know, like this whole, like our culture has kind of driven our buying culture is driven on envy.
You know, it’s like the comparison of like, You know, Oh, they have the perfect car house. Perfect family, great jobs. That’s no problems. Cause they bought the Honda, you know, or whatever the thing is. It’s like so much of that is driven on envy, but anything that’s material is bound to eventually disappoint.
Because it’s material it’s created, it’s not permanent, you know? Um, and it’s not God. And, and anytime you start to replace the immaterial with the material, things start to go wrong. Um, because you’re, you’re putting something in God’s seat that just isn’t God, uh, whether it’s a range Rover bar of gold or somebody’s family that you’re NBSF, I don’t know.
It’s just, I don’t think there’s a place for envy inside of love.
Josh: Yeah, it’s definitely going to cause destruction and I’m going to put distance between you and, and, and other people, but like even just the, the willingness to. Cut corners. Like you’re saying like when envy takes over, like you’re willing, as James said, you’re willing to cause yeah. Other destructive patterns and other sin to, to enter the picture, you would never would have.
If you weren’t chasing something that you shouldn’t have been chasing in the first place. And it’s amazing, like how quickly you go down that road. I think oftentimes too, like. Um, this interest, the picture constantly like the blessing and cursing, um, theology of the old, old covenant. And if I do good, God will bless me.
If I do bad, God will curse me. Um, and, and we’ve said this numerous times that theology doesn’t exist anymore. Um, when the covenant changed and Jesus fulfilled the old covenant, this new covenant that’s individualistic, it’s. Pointed at us. Jesus was very clear that we’re going to suffer because of it like, um, yeah.
And your suffering isn’t because of your sin. Um, necessarily it’s it’s because this is just the world we live in now. Like you stand for something that the enemy is going to attack. Um, and that’s just normal. So we have to get away from that theology. Cause what ends up happening is God, look at all the good I’m doing for you.
I’m God, I’m not sending in this way. I’m doing all this good stuff. Did you not see that? What I did for that old woman on the street corner, I’m like, you should be giving this to me, but yet you’re giving this to this other person, um, who seems so evil. On the outside, looking in, um, and Jesus was clear.
Like I’m going to send the rain for both equally the, just, and the unjust, um, like that’s normal. Um, so I think, yeah, if you get away from the theology, cause it also takes you down roads of like, I deserve this and you don’t deserve anything. Like the only reason you have sin in your life that you’ve conquered is not on your own behalf.
Like get over yourself. It’s by the power of Jesus and his resurrection that you have any power over sin. Whatsoever. So like to get into the nitty gritty of it all, like it’s not about you when we make it about you, this selfish ambition or this envy, I’m like, destruction’s going to follow. So stop making it about you.
Like, I don’t care how good of you’ve done. I don’t care if your mother Theresa and how you love people. Um, That doesn’t mean you deserve anything because what you deserve was death and destruction, because that’s what your sin was, but Jesus has sacrifice. And the only good about your life was Jesus sacrifice.
Um, is the only reason that you have access to so many great things and so many great attributes to who you are today was because of what Jesus has done. So give credit where credit’s due Jesus and be content with what Jesus has given. As hard as it is at times. Um, because that’s like, that’s where true joy, true life.
That’s where we experienced the full life is inside of, of, of a relationship and inside of, um, being content with who God has created this to be and what God has given us. And, um, also trusting the fact of what God hasn’t given us. Yeah. Like. I look at it and say, man, I think I’d be a really good steward of a hundred million dollars.
I think God should give me a hundred million dollars. But in all reality, probably not like, let’s be honest. I’m going to, I’m going to ruin some lives with a hundred million dollars, probably my own. Um, Like God is giving me exactly what I need and I have to be content and okay with that, like, I don’t have whatever, because this is what God thinks is best for me.
Maybe it’s in the season, maybe it’s for this life, who knows. Um, but like, there’s that piece of it too of like, no, no, no. God’s plan is perfect. It’s not what I wanted. And I have to figure out how to get to a place where I want what Jesus wants, but, um, Like, I think there’s a big, big piece of that too, of like it’s, I don’t care how good you think you are, how much good you think you’ve done?
The covenant changed and it doesn’t work like that anymore. Um, and you’ve gotta be okay with that. Um, and that’s a hard lesson to learn, like less of you and more of Jesus. Like that’s a hard lesson
Andrew: to learn. You think the flip side, like the I’m sure we could look this up in five seconds, but is the opposite opposite of envy?
Just like gratefulness, um, when, like you just. Cause I think of people who are grateful. There’s one friend I have, uh, in particular I’ve made here that I’m just like, he’s a grateful dude. Um, and you just see it in the way that he interacts with his child, with his wife, the way that he, uh, does all kinds of things.
Like he’s just a grateful person. And to me, that’s like, it’s such a. Good attribute for somebody to think of you as grateful. I don’t know if people think of me as that, but, um, I’d like for them to, because it’s like,
Josh: are you fishing for a concept off of it? If you
Andrew: want stop, stop that. No, but like literally, um, it’s, it’s such a good thing.
And I think it just, it shows you’re content with what you have. Yeah. I don’t know.
Josh: Well, I think too, like, I think generosity is probably the
Andrew: opposite of envy. Yeah.
Josh: I would have seen, um sure. Cause it, it lives in that world, but granted, like you can’t be generous without gratitude. So it probably goes hand in hand, but like, I don’t know, generosity is two fold too, right?
Like oftentimes we like to say, I should say it could have two faces to it rather than twofold. Um, I can be generous on the outside, but in all reality, I’m trying to manipulate. A situation with my generosity. Well, that’s not generosity. Well, no. Great, great gratitude there. I’m just trying to manipulate.
Um, the other side of it is genuine. Generosity where I’m giving sacrificially to those around me, because it’s what Jesus has called me to do. Um, I think is probably a big piece. And so the other side of is this too, like, um, say you’re envious, let’s go back to the preacher example. Cause it’s, it’s easy.
I’m envious of this preacher because of his preaching skills and the crowds and the influence that he has because of what God has given him. Um, generosity would be, I should be. You know, helping in any way I can, I’m in relationship with them. If I’m not then like stop it. Um, but if I’m in a relationship, how can I help?
Like, can I help you with sermon prep? Can I help you with, with whatever? How can I assist you in doing these, these things? And then it’s also like, Talking you up in a great way, man. Andrew is such a phenomenal communicator. Um, he’s so good at like, did you see how he did this, this and this? I’m like, there’s that piece of it too, of generosity of I’m giving generous praise to somebody, whether that person ever hears it or not, I would argue they should probably hear it, but I’m like, there’s something that does in your own spirit of when I start to lift these people up, um, It is, it is envy, at least according to sorry, the results just get back.
Andrew: Generosity is the
Josh: generosity is the opposite of that and be
Josh: The verb is be glad for, um, Which kind of goes along with what I’m exactly saying. Like, can I be glad for that individual? And can I, can I raise, this is why we’re friends. I just want you to just watch something else.
I don’t have enough people in my life to tell me how awesome I am. That’s not true if they only knew the room, um, But yeah, I think that’s a big thing. It’s like, how are you giving it? But
Andrew: take a step back, take a step back,
Josh: take a step back. And we said this earlier, like, what is Jesus telling you to do in this moment?
That was the thing that you should be doing. Like we’re giving you ideas. That’s great. But if you just live by our ideas, it’s management, it’s not going to really change your heart. It’s not really gonna change anything. Like you need to be in relationship with Jesus and let Jesus speak into those things.
And, um, at some point. There might come a time and this would be difficult lesson for Jesus to give you. But, um, he does give this lesson of, you have to reach out to that individual and let them know that you’re envious of them about these things, um, to get it out all on the table to heal relationship, especially if you’re in a place where you’ve destroyed relationship because of your me to heal our relationship, you would have to circle back around and be like, Hey, I’m like, this is what.
This is why I acted the way I did, or this is why these situations played out the way that it is, because I actually, I was, and I’ve done that before. Like I had an individual that I led poorly because I was giving up something I loved. Um, and it wasn’t being done the way that I thought it should be done.
Horrible leadership moment. Um, and I had to circle back around, you know, I don’t know if it was a year later, a few years later, um, after I experienced a similar thing, um, and apologize like, Hey, this is what I did and I led you poorly. And, um, hopefully you can forgive me. And thankfully he did, and we have great leadership today, but like you gotta man up sometimes and heal those relationships that need to be healed.
Andrew: Right? Yeah. And isn’t that like the, it’s the things you learned from experience over time? Where you’re like, man, I wish I didn’t have to learn that lesson, but hopefully I never have to learn it again. You know, like the, when we were talking about patients, it’s like just be patient with people because one, one bad thing you do one impatient thing.
You do, you have to do a lot of good things to replace that. You’ve got to do a lot of kinds of things to replace it. And just in the same way, it’s like, don’t be envious because at the end of the day, it’s going to hurt you. More than anybody else, you know, it’s going to hurt your relationship with Jesus.
It’s going to hurt your relationships with the people around you. Not even just the person you’re envy of ever envious or the thing. I’m the ones that it’s going to
Josh: hurt. Just the distress, your costs because of hurt.
Andrew: It’s like. Satan wants us to be envious. Um, sometimes we want to be envious. You know, we got to own that piece of, of our own lives, the sin that can creep in because we want something that God doesn’t want for us.
But at the end of the day, if you want to avoid some trouble, uh, just recognize where Indy is creeping into your life and try to, um, ask God. Don’t even try, just ask God to help you deal with that. And then follow Jesus’s example on that, um, in this. So, yeah, man, if you just want to avoid some pain in this school, don’t be envious.
Cause it’s just not going to bring anything good. It’s not a part of love and it’s not, I’m
Josh: just going to steal your jewelry. It’s just going to steal the full, full life that Jesus has for you, man. If that’s what you’re chasing, that’s what you want to experience like this is, this is. You know, right on it to, to start to steal those things from you, but, you know, we’ll continue our conversations.
We kind of work through these levels versus, um, and dig into these things. Um, as, as next up, we’ll talk about that. Love is, and maybe we should have put these together, but love is not proud. Um, but yeah. Pride is, is right there along with, with envy. They kind of, the hand in hand, one is a protective protection Mack mechanism, trying to protect myself.
I live in pride. Um, but also from a destructive standpoint too, but yeah. Um, yeah. It’s yeah, it’s going to be a good one. We’ll talk about pride. You get into arrogant and rude and, um, Does not insist it’s own way is not irresistible. This is a different version.
Andrew: Well, I’ll just
Josh: no version of scripture you read, but you put it in here and I’m like, no, this, uh, does not dishonor others.
Not self-seeking it’s not anger does keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight. An evil, but rejoices with the truth. Um, I’m looking forward to that, that episode, that whole statement right there. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoice in the truth of what that really means. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres love, never fails.
What’s what version of the Bible do you typically
Andrew: read? Read the ESV. I think I listened to the SP or the message I enjoyed those lot.
Andrew: haters gonna hate, you know, that was first Corinthians
Josh: 13, someone that grew up with this dyslexia. The SV is just, it is a fricking I can’t do it because it, and here’s the issue with the USP is the S one of the SPS goal.
Like there’s a scale, right? To, to modern language readability, to, uh, closest to the original text. Right. And there’s a scale and they all land at different places. The NIV with land. I’m pretty much in the middle. You’d have, you know, the new living translation that would live more on the further side of, of common language today.
And then you’d have the ESV, the NASB on, on this side of like, we’re going to stick to sentence structure. And because it’s, since, since. Sits in sentence structure, the way the grammar works inside of it makes no sense to me. So I get lost constantly inside of it. Cause I’m just not
Andrew: smart. You’re smart enough to read it.
I read the NASB cause that’s the one that Janet got me a long time ago. That’s
Josh: worse. That’s worse than, or is
Andrew: it better? Because it’s closer to the original man. You said it.
Josh: Um, What’s more important that it’s closer to the original, they were
Andrew: envious that I read the NAS.
Josh: I would argue that it’s numb. Yes.
I just recognize that you’re much smarter than I know. Yeah,
Andrew: no, I also, I like the message, but people, if you’re listening to this and you like this theme we’re on, I would encourage you if you don’t like a lot of people. I think I sometimes feel this way. Um, just don’t know what to read in the Bible and guess what you’re allowed to read.
One piece of the Bible of lot of times, there’s not going to be any harm that comes with it. It’s true. So if you like this, this kind of linking about relationship and what is love, what isn’t love, I’ve just encouraged you spend a week, spend six weeks. Reading first Corinthians 13. Like you’re not going to hurt anything by that.
And, and you might understand these verses better than we do by the time you’re done with it. So, yeah. So just take some time, read this, read it slowly, journal it out. Think about it, pray about it. It’s going to be only good that comes out of it. So, um, yeah, that’s my encouragement.
Josh: Yeah, that’s true. I think so often we think that’s a great encouragement.
I think so often we think that. We have to reach chapter by chapter through scripture, or we have to cover more ground to be more godly Christians. And in all reality application is the key to God’s word. And God’s speaking to us. So to live in such potent verses of. I would love to hear your journey. So like, if you choose to take that journey, like reach out to us and you can reach out to us at our email, email@example.com or find us on Instagram and messengers there.
Um, I think our jesus’ life podcast is, is the handle, but, um, like reach out. Cause I want to hear that journey to you and what God’s teaching you through it. And then we’d love to reach back out, you know? Six weeks from now and here, how much more you understand what love to be inside of relationship, um, that maybe you didn’t understand before.
And we’d love to learn from you. Um, we love you guys. We are praying for you guys and as always, Andrew, it’s good to see my friend.
Andrew: Good to see you. My man,
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